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	<title>Comments on: Why Pete Warden Should Not Release Profile Data on 215 Million Facebook Users</title>
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	<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2010/02/12/why-pete-warden-should-not-release-profile-data-on-215-million-facebook-users/</link>
	<description>information ethics : privacy : new media : values in design : 2.0</description>
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		<title>By: Jerogee Mills</title>
		<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2010/02/12/why-pete-warden-should-not-release-profile-data-on-215-million-facebook-users/comment-page-1/#comment-160604</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerogee Mills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelzimmer.org/?p=1832#comment-160604</guid>
		<description>Michael, I think Conrad really has a point here. I agree with you that the key to reduce ignorance is education, but unfortunately this is a painfully slow process.

We can of course wait and hope that within 5 or 10 years the average Internet user is more educated and most will think twice about unconstrained disclosure of personal details to global public, companies, or governments, but with the rate at which technology develops and remaining privacy is being eradicated there is not much to hope for. Apart from that, studies in psychology and sociology have repeatedly pointed out that we tend to bother less as long as something does not affect our immediate environment or ourselves directly, so opening people&#039;s eyes (before it is really too late and massive datasets of thoroughly profiled individuals are widely available to be used and misused by anybody) is of utmost importance.

Reducing ignorance by education is essential, but unfortunately we too often need things to go terribly wrong and get personally involved to get painfully aware of how important things are that we often take for granted. A combination of education and thoughtful confrontation to increase awareness and a sense of importance would therefore be the most effective. With a open, free, safe society and our civil liberties at stake, there is no time to waste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I think Conrad really has a point here. I agree with you that the key to reduce ignorance is education, but unfortunately this is a painfully slow process.</p>
<p>We can of course wait and hope that within 5 or 10 years the average Internet user is more educated and most will think twice about unconstrained disclosure of personal details to global public, companies, or governments, but with the rate at which technology develops and remaining privacy is being eradicated there is not much to hope for. Apart from that, studies in psychology and sociology have repeatedly pointed out that we tend to bother less as long as something does not affect our immediate environment or ourselves directly, so opening people&#8217;s eyes (before it is really too late and massive datasets of thoroughly profiled individuals are widely available to be used and misused by anybody) is of utmost importance.</p>
<p>Reducing ignorance by education is essential, but unfortunately we too often need things to go terribly wrong and get personally involved to get painfully aware of how important things are that we often take for granted. A combination of education and thoughtful confrontation to increase awareness and a sense of importance would therefore be the most effective. With a open, free, safe society and our civil liberties at stake, there is no time to waste.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Zimmer</title>
		<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2010/02/12/why-pete-warden-should-not-release-profile-data-on-215-million-facebook-users/comment-page-1/#comment-160545</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Zimmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelzimmer.org/?p=1832#comment-160545</guid>
		<description>Conrad: Thanks for the comment, but, respectfully, I disagree. While you and I recognize that &quot;once a document is public on the web, one can no longer make presumptions about how it will be used&quot;, &lt;i&gt;many&lt;/i&gt; Web users do not fully understand this, and we cannot presume it as a proper starting place for forming norms of information flow online. And, as you predict, I also disagree that Warden&#039;s releasing of the data would be a positive step towards reducing ignorance. There are much better ways to educate Web users and increase digital literacy than the drastic move of releasing data about them. My intent isn&#039;t to control bots, but to educate users and researchers alike regarding the norms of information flow, and, as a result, hopefully adjust their tactics and strategies accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conrad: Thanks for the comment, but, respectfully, I disagree. While you and I recognize that &#8220;once a document is public on the web, one can no longer make presumptions about how it will be used&#8221;, <i>many</i> Web users do not fully understand this, and we cannot presume it as a proper starting place for forming norms of information flow online. And, as you predict, I also disagree that Warden&#8217;s releasing of the data would be a positive step towards reducing ignorance. There are much better ways to educate Web users and increase digital literacy than the drastic move of releasing data about them. My intent isn&#8217;t to control bots, but to educate users and researchers alike regarding the norms of information flow, and, as a result, hopefully adjust their tactics and strategies accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad Lee</title>
		<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2010/02/12/why-pete-warden-should-not-release-profile-data-on-215-million-facebook-users/comment-page-1/#comment-160544</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelzimmer.org/?p=1832#comment-160544</guid>
		<description>One of your main points seems to be that people are unaware that their data may be collected by bots, and so there is an implicit agreement that the data will be consumed by only humans.

However, once a document is public on the web, one can no longer make presumptions about how it will be used.  Even if Pete Warden does not release his dataset, others have already collected this data and are using it for unknown purposes.  In fact, it&#039;s probably on sale &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rapleaf.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  If Pete Warden releases the Facebook data, he will just be bringing attention to the fact that this kind of automated collection is already happening, which in my mind is better than allowing people to remain ignorant of this possibility.

You could argue that this argument is based on the premise that one wrong justifies another, which is in part true.  If no bots crawled this data, then your argument against releasing the data would be stronger.  However, there&#039;s no way of enforcing this kind of control, so this is a moot point in my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of your main points seems to be that people are unaware that their data may be collected by bots, and so there is an implicit agreement that the data will be consumed by only humans.</p>
<p>However, once a document is public on the web, one can no longer make presumptions about how it will be used.  Even if Pete Warden does not release his dataset, others have already collected this data and are using it for unknown purposes.  In fact, it&#8217;s probably on sale <a href="http://www.rapleaf.com/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  If Pete Warden releases the Facebook data, he will just be bringing attention to the fact that this kind of automated collection is already happening, which in my mind is better than allowing people to remain ignorant of this possibility.</p>
<p>You could argue that this argument is based on the premise that one wrong justifies another, which is in part true.  If no bots crawled this data, then your argument against releasing the data would be stronger.  However, there&#8217;s no way of enforcing this kind of control, so this is a moot point in my mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Zimmer</title>
		<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2010/02/12/why-pete-warden-should-not-release-profile-data-on-215-million-facebook-users/comment-page-1/#comment-160498</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Zimmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelzimmer.org/?p=1832#comment-160498</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, Arvind. Sorry, didn&#039;t mean to trivialize your efforts. My meaning was that it was &quot;trivial&quot; in the sense that it didn&#039;t require a supercomputer and the NSA, but rather some hard work by bright computer scientists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, Arvind. Sorry, didn&#8217;t mean to trivialize your efforts. My meaning was that it was &#8220;trivial&#8221; in the sense that it didn&#8217;t require a supercomputer and the NSA, but rather some hard work by bright computer scientists.</p>
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		<title>By: Arvind Narayanan</title>
		<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2010/02/12/why-pete-warden-should-not-release-profile-data-on-215-million-facebook-users/comment-page-1/#comment-160497</link>
		<dc:creator>Arvind Narayanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelzimmer.org/?p=1832#comment-160497</guid>
		<description>Heh. That social networks paper took us several months of data analysis and coding. Not trivial :-) A better argument would be that the techniques are now already out there and it would be pretty easy for someone else to reproduce it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. That social networks paper took us several months of data analysis and coding. Not trivial <img src='http://michaelzimmer.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  A better argument would be that the techniques are now already out there and it would be pretty easy for someone else to reproduce it.</p>
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