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	<title>Comments on: Yes, Google Desktop Does Put Privacy in Jeopardy</title>
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	<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2006/02/12/yes-google-desktop-does-put-privacy-in-jeopardy/</link>
	<description>information ethics : privacy : new media : values in design : 2.0</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Zimmer</title>
		<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2006/02/12/yes-google-desktop-does-put-privacy-in-jeopardy/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Zimmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelzimmer.org/2006/02/12/yes-google-desktop-does-put-privacy-in-jeopardy/#comment-191</guid>
		<description>Art - thanks for the comments. To reply:

1. I&#039;m not sure what your point is regarding the fact that the &quot;encryption setting only applies to your local computer.&quot; My main concern is that (a) encryption is an  option that must be selected, not the default, (b) Google warns about encryption impacting performance, which might prevent less savvy users from selecting this privacy-protecting option, and (c) the encryption scheme might have security flaws. (I&#039;m not crypto expert...)

2. &quot;Google is more than transparent on the SAC feature&quot;: I fully agree that Google has acted well in disclosing some of the privacy &amp; security concerns with this feature.    &quot;different from e-mail&quot;: One difference is that data sent via e-mail &lt;i&gt;might&lt;/i&gt; enjoy some legal protections as a communication, while simply having your files stored on a remote server has no chance of such protection. My overall point here is that while you &amp; I might recognize some of the drawbacks to having information stored on third-party servers, less savvy Internet users might feel that whatever Google provides them (they&#039;re on the cover of Time magazine, afterall) must be a good thing and indiscriminately allow all of their personal files to be uploaded onto Google&#039;s hardware. If that makes me a &quot;chicken little&quot; so be it...

3. For a reasonable argument that Google is protecting its trade secrets, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://battellemedia.com/archives/002249.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Battelle&lt;/a&gt;. They don&#039;t want to make public (or even put into government hands) any data regarding the types or amounts of queries it processes, nor the makeup of its index of web pages.

4. I do not blame &quot;the tools of progress&quot;; I merely point out the concerns inherent with the ways the tools are designed. Indeed, these are serious technologies, with serious consequences. I&#039;m glad that Google decided to make &quot;search across computers&quot; an option that needs to be turned on, and not a default. But why not make encryption a default as well? Why not warn users that their personal files are accessible at Google if they are presented with a subpoena? 

Finally, I&#039;m confused by your comment that attempts to point out security or privacy conerns with Google&#039;s technology is &quot;questionable, motivation-wise.&quot; Could you explain?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art &#8211; thanks for the comments. To reply:</p>
<p>1. I&#8217;m not sure what your point is regarding the fact that the &#8220;encryption setting only applies to your local computer.&#8221; My main concern is that (a) encryption is an  option that must be selected, not the default, (b) Google warns about encryption impacting performance, which might prevent less savvy users from selecting this privacy-protecting option, and (c) the encryption scheme might have security flaws. (I&#8217;m not crypto expert&#8230;)</p>
<p>2. &#8220;Google is more than transparent on the SAC feature&#8221;: I fully agree that Google has acted well in disclosing some of the privacy &#038; security concerns with this feature.    &#8220;different from e-mail&#8221;: One difference is that data sent via e-mail <i>might</i> enjoy some legal protections as a communication, while simply having your files stored on a remote server has no chance of such protection. My overall point here is that while you &#038; I might recognize some of the drawbacks to having information stored on third-party servers, less savvy Internet users might feel that whatever Google provides them (they&#8217;re on the cover of Time magazine, afterall) must be a good thing and indiscriminately allow all of their personal files to be uploaded onto Google&#8217;s hardware. If that makes me a &#8220;chicken little&#8221; so be it&#8230;</p>
<p>3. For a reasonable argument that Google is protecting its trade secrets, see <a href="http://battellemedia.com/archives/002249.php" rel="nofollow">John Battelle</a>. They don&#8217;t want to make public (or even put into government hands) any data regarding the types or amounts of queries it processes, nor the makeup of its index of web pages.</p>
<p>4. I do not blame &#8220;the tools of progress&#8221;; I merely point out the concerns inherent with the ways the tools are designed. Indeed, these are serious technologies, with serious consequences. I&#8217;m glad that Google decided to make &#8220;search across computers&#8221; an option that needs to be turned on, and not a default. But why not make encryption a default as well? Why not warn users that their personal files are accessible at Google if they are presented with a subpoena? </p>
<p>Finally, I&#8217;m confused by your comment that attempts to point out security or privacy conerns with Google&#8217;s technology is &#8220;questionable, motivation-wise.&#8221; Could you explain?</p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://michaelzimmer.org/2006/02/12/yes-google-desktop-does-put-privacy-in-jeopardy/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2006 06:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michaelzimmer.org/2006/02/12/yes-google-desktop-does-put-privacy-in-jeopardy/#comment-190</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re quite mistaken on a variety of points yourself.

1. The encryption setting only applies to your local computer. In fact, I&#039;m surprised the performance hit comment didn&#039;t tip you off, as while encrypting locally obviously account for a performance hit; computers are just as efficient transmitting preencrypted data as non encrypted data. (They&#039;re all 1&#039;s and 0&#039;s remember?). This kind of tips advanced GDS users off that you dont know what the hell you&#039;re talking about. That aside..

The search across computers feature once enabled, encrypts the data in transit both ways and on the server side cache. On the tail end of that.. &quot;less than bulletproof&quot;?? How about you go pay for something to bulletproof your data? Everybody would be complaining if the app used triple DES since even that&#039;s not &quot;bullet proof.&quot; Whats the point again?

2.  What you&#039;ve quoted is is a common point brought up in discussions or defenses of what are perceivied to be privacy invading technologies, because it&#039;s still a legitimate point. The ignorant user isn&#039;t an exculpable user, is he? Google is more than transparent on the SAC feature. If a dumb arse extremist or Enron executive gets popped because he left his illegal information on a Google server, thats what they get. The underlying point is still relevant: if you have stuff to hide from the feds A) Dont store it online, and B) Don&#039;t use a free service and software to store it online.

None of you chicken littles have yet to describe how different this is from private information transmitted and stored via regular email.

3. If you&#039;re so confident that Google is fighting the DOJ to protect trade secrets, that&#039;s a pretty ignorant statement. Google only has to provide filtered aggregate data regarding search term usage and frequency. Nothing secret about that -- unless they have many less or more users than they let on.

4. The applicaton provides an easy means as to exclude whatever users dont want indexed. This is serious technology, and serious options. Don&#039;t blame the tools of progress. I&#039;m glad you guys and the EFF weren&#039;t around when Email was invented.  Or Credit Cards, library cards, Cell phones...etc.

The legal process will always have subpoena and search warrant rights on your digital data, regardless if you&#039;re using Google Desktop, AIM,  Hotmail, Comcast internet service, Yahoo! Games, or whatever.  And believe me, ISPs roll over at the drop of a dime, although also in their defense, a company doing business in the US is required to adhere to its laws. 

Any attempts to demonize Google in this whole scheme is misguided and quite frankly questionable, motivation-wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re quite mistaken on a variety of points yourself.</p>
<p>1. The encryption setting only applies to your local computer. In fact, I&#8217;m surprised the performance hit comment didn&#8217;t tip you off, as while encrypting locally obviously account for a performance hit; computers are just as efficient transmitting preencrypted data as non encrypted data. (They&#8217;re all 1&#8242;s and 0&#8242;s remember?). This kind of tips advanced GDS users off that you dont know what the hell you&#8217;re talking about. That aside..</p>
<p>The search across computers feature once enabled, encrypts the data in transit both ways and on the server side cache. On the tail end of that.. &#8220;less than bulletproof&#8221;?? How about you go pay for something to bulletproof your data? Everybody would be complaining if the app used triple DES since even that&#8217;s not &#8220;bullet proof.&#8221; Whats the point again?</p>
<p>2.  What you&#8217;ve quoted is is a common point brought up in discussions or defenses of what are perceivied to be privacy invading technologies, because it&#8217;s still a legitimate point. The ignorant user isn&#8217;t an exculpable user, is he? Google is more than transparent on the SAC feature. If a dumb arse extremist or Enron executive gets popped because he left his illegal information on a Google server, thats what they get. The underlying point is still relevant: if you have stuff to hide from the feds A) Dont store it online, and B) Don&#8217;t use a free service and software to store it online.</p>
<p>None of you chicken littles have yet to describe how different this is from private information transmitted and stored via regular email.</p>
<p>3. If you&#8217;re so confident that Google is fighting the DOJ to protect trade secrets, that&#8217;s a pretty ignorant statement. Google only has to provide filtered aggregate data regarding search term usage and frequency. Nothing secret about that &#8212; unless they have many less or more users than they let on.</p>
<p>4. The applicaton provides an easy means as to exclude whatever users dont want indexed. This is serious technology, and serious options. Don&#8217;t blame the tools of progress. I&#8217;m glad you guys and the EFF weren&#8217;t around when Email was invented.  Or Credit Cards, library cards, Cell phones&#8230;etc.</p>
<p>The legal process will always have subpoena and search warrant rights on your digital data, regardless if you&#8217;re using Google Desktop, AIM,  Hotmail, Comcast internet service, Yahoo! Games, or whatever.  And believe me, ISPs roll over at the drop of a dime, although also in their defense, a company doing business in the US is required to adhere to its laws. </p>
<p>Any attempts to demonize Google in this whole scheme is misguided and quite frankly questionable, motivation-wise.</p>
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